Helmet Advice - different to the last ask...

[warnabrother]

Originally Posted by Massage Guy

Interesting...

What's equally interesting is that I have 2 helmets here my crappy old KBC and my wife's significantly nicer (and lateish model) Shark, both bought in Australia neither has the AS sewn inside.

I think the key to your argument would have slightly more motivation, not just for me, but generally if it were only a few bucks different, not a few hundred.

If the difference was up to $200 I would be happy to buy in the great land of Aus.
But at some point there has to be some kind of give - these guys in America are still making a buck selling them for almost half price plus postage.

Hence my argument overall (not at you Warnabrother - just large companies using Australia as a retail cash cow).
I accept that there are transport issues, but lets do some sums - and be generous with the components therein.

Bikes and scooters opens a shop and I am the doofus rooting up the purchasing...

The wholesale price to the distributor is we would suspect somewhat less than advertised... but lets go bananas and buy them at the USA Retail rate of $349.

Let's also pay the rate of the single USA postage unit of $50
Then lets pay $10,000 per helmet style/model for testing and break the cost over ($50) 200 helmets of each style(I hope we sell more but we are in fantasy land here)

Shoei would add the Stickers Etc at factory - I wouldn't expect this to be an expensive exercise, but lets go for $20 per helmet for supply and fitting of the aforementioned AS requirements.

$470 is the total so far - and while we don't yet have a profit
lets also have a crack at 30% import duty pre postage $120 per unit (don't now why I just like 30% as a number)

$590 is the fictitious base line we have - spending as much as we could possible to make this the most expensive landed price imaginable.

Now - if there is a $200 wedge in $800 helmets, I am going to open a helmet shop.

I am very much aware that bikeshops have wages and floor stuff and rent and insurances etc and that they deserve as a business to turn a profit.. but bloody hell, I was unaware that all of that was laid on the P/L of helmets.

remembering that it's the one item you have to legally have, and like the inflated victorian 250 market - there is some certain amount of crotch trapping going on somewhere.

So I think that beyond just Saving a few hundred dollars I am feeling a little protesty now as well...

I would love for someone to have a crack at legal action if the TAC had a go in suggesting that Shoei helmets bought outside Australia were inferior...

LOL

Phew... got a bit of juice into that reply...

not directed at you Warna - you just got me thinking!

yep.. no offence taken mate.. this isn't umm.arggh..umm another forum

I totally agree with you on all you say.. HOWEVER.. saving a few hundred dollars.. hell, even $1000 is small change compared to having to pay for a carer for the rest of your life because you can't wipe your own ass after an accident and TAC wont cover you (hypothetically ofcourse)..
as for the sewn in label on the helmet.. it's usually printed on the label inside the helmet.. my Shark has a label with sizing, year of manufacture etc. and also states "Manufactured to AS blah blah"...

[Noodie Pooh]

Well, to my knowledge the average mark up of retail items is around 100%. Out of this comes retail outlet rent, salaries, insurance, outfitting, GST, etc. etc. etc. I think it reasonable and I don't think you could stay in business long if your markup is less than 50%.

As for the 30% import duty, if there is no manufacturing of helmets here in OZ (and I don't know of any) then there is no import duty, as there is no local industry that competes.

Another reason why I think the helmets are more expensive here is the AU certification, so thank our caring government for that one! Australia is a small market in the global arena and has to have it's own standard (for what reason, I dunno!). So the; say $10,000 per style has to be paid for by us! Thanks government! Hence we have a very limited choice here, as the manufacturers don't see value in us and how could they?

It comes down to the fact that our government wanted to build it's own industry of certifying everything, so it could employ some people and basically have us pay for something that has already been done (better) overseas! Go figure???

Pooh

[warnabrother]

Originally Posted by Noodie Pooh

Well, to my knowledge the average mark up of retail items is around 100%. Out of this comes retail outlet rent, salaries, insurance, outfitting, GST, etc. etc. etc. I think it reasonable and I don't think you could stay in business long if your markup is less than 50%.

As for the 30% import duty, if there is no manufacturing of helmets here in OZ (and I don't know of any) then there is no import duty, as there is no local industry that competes.

Another reason why I think the helmets are more expensive here is the AU certification, so thank our caring government for that one! Australia is a small market in the global arena and has to have it's own standard (for what reason, I dunno!). So the; say $10,000 per style has to be paid for by us! Thanks government! Hence we have a very limited choice here, as the manufacturers don't see value in us and how could they?

It comes down to the fact that our government wanted to build it's own industry of certifying everything, so it could employ some people and basically have us pay for something that has already been done (better) overseas! Go figure???

Pooh

bikes shops dont and cant put anywhere near 100% markup on their wholesale prices for helmets.. or anything else for that matter

The wholesalers themselves may be making 100% on what they pay for them.. but they have a rec. retail which in reality is quite low compared to what the unit costs to the bike shop..

we also need to remember that (for eg.) ABC Helmets in the USA is buying 1000 helmets of type X... and XYZ wholesalers in Melbourne is importing maybe 100.. obviously the company in the US is going to be paying less for their helmet..

ALSO.. many of the internet stores have NO OVERHEADS.. so can afford to sell at maybe 30% on wholesale..

and one more thing.. :-)
I also dont think that helmet manufacturers are making the same helmet to pass very strict Aus Standards as they are for the US market, which has no compulsory standards..(and I am only surmising here...).. but if a helmet needs to pass no standards and can be made at a lower cost to make more margin than one that has to meet pretty strict standards.. then surely they will ????????

[Noodie Pooh]

Warna, the standards here are below what the tests like DOT and SNELL are!

[Massage Guy]

Well well well... hasn't this got interesting!

Unfortunately, just like my "Bikes and scooters helmet shop" the figures we are all tossing are guesswork, and I agree with both warna and pooh - for different perspectives..
I agree that retailers need to make a buck - and if the unit was still reasonably priced then then it becomes irrelevant as to what the markup is.

BUT in Warna's case I reckon he's on the ball with the comment re:limited scope for that kind of markup.

My passionate, if somewhat inflated, flight of helmet shop fantasy stems more from the way we as consumers are forced to pay through the nose for a helmet that costs 50% less oversees - no-one ever complains.. we just trudge along like automatons and pay what we are told to, and accept that it's for some greater initiative.

Helmets for Motorcycles aren't a luxury item, and in some flawed logic instituted by the AS comittee the budget helmets are being bought by the tonne... because they are cheap. I own a buget helmet at the moment - primarily because it was all I could afford at the time. WHile it apparently conforms to Australian Standard 1698, it is and from the outset, has always been a crap helmet: hot, glued on vents that don't work, crap periferal vision, doesn't seal, ear blisteringly noisy etc

So the logic follows if we stay in this mindless trudge that it is better to buy a substandard helmet for full retail and make compensations during it's use rather than purchase a seriously great helmet for the same money from overseas that has less to worry about in it's day to day use, and which may add that neccessary 2% in a potentially dangerous situation.

FLAWED logic.

I don't know what the answer is, but there is a fairness issue here that sticks in my craw.

[Muttly]

While I can see your logic with the AS standard I don't think you can really blame that for the diffrence in $$$'s between the $US and the $A.

I got the top box for my FJR in the states because it was almost half the price of the one in Aus. ($1650.00au to $900.00a). The product is 100% identical to the one in the states (even to the point that when they had a recall I went to my local Yamaha dealer over here and they exchanged the particular part without question). The difference in price is not due to getting AS stamp of approval, it's the market they have available to sell to.

I haven't gone to any in depth examination as to whether the TAC would consider a DOT/SNELL helmet the same standard as an AS helmet but I would really question whether Shoei or any other major manufacturer actually put it to Australian Standards testing. I'm much more inclined to think that it's more...AS approved = Dot xx, or SNELL x, etc.

Maybe someone in the know can tell us all so that next time the TAC say that that wasn't an AS approved helmet we can say yes its was because it was DOT xx or SNELL approved.

[Iffy]

Muttly's a bean counter, he should know this stuff.....


This is an interesting read....

RoadLegalOz.com.au :: View topic - As1698 [ Guest ]

[Iffy]

Interesting.. Standards Australia no longer exists.

It's been split into two organisations, one develops standards, one sells the information. (saiglobal.com)

I was going to buy AS/NZ1698, the helmet standard, but noticed on the saiglobal website that there are many related standards that may need to be read in conjunction to get the whole picture...

I'll pass on that, but personally, I believe the manufacturers will test to AS1698, or submit results of other tests (Snell, DOT etc) that already prove similar or greater conformance to the Authority (saiglobal also sell the stickers)

so IMHO, if the brand/model appears in OZ with the label, and is available overseas cheaper, then your all good.
If the brand/model does NOT appear in OZ, then I wouldn't buy it. But only cos the numpty bureaucrats might try to disallow a claim due to non-conformance with the AS. Silly really when MA allows many standards approved helmets to be used on tracks, As is but one.

that's just me

[Massage Guy]

Just got this reply from the American retailer re: whether or not they are the same helmets..
"
Yes, ironically helmets are identical except for the (AS) sticker. They come with the Snell2005 and DOT stickers on them.

now lets not debate the validity of the "irony" in the statement, but at least that's some confirmation regarding the type of helmet etc.

D :-)